Comments on: Python Web Framework pissing match

By: Massimo

Massimo — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 05:09:51 +0000

I agree with Ian here. I’d like to add that It would be better to have a single web framework (for me that’s Gluon http://mdp.cti.depaul.edu) but given that we have many, competition for the users is a necessary ingredient for evolution.
Here are some funny talks on the subject with opposite views: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/93 and http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/20

By: Bruce Eckel

Bruce Eckel — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:38:43 +0000

At the as-yet-unannounced Dynamic Web Frameworks Jam in Crested Butte, CO (either June 5-8 or 12-19) we are planning to investigate TG, Django and Rails. So we can compare and contrast. I find that I learn more by studying different systems, and after this I hope to have a pretty good idea of what a web framework actually is, precisely because I will have seen the differences.

By: Mark Ramm

Mark Ramm — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 12:15:27 +0000

Ian,

My whole point is about politeness, and about not devolving into techno-tribalism. We need to be willing to see good in other “tribes” and hold our opinions just a bit more loosely.

Listening to others and really understanding why they do things is hard, but it’s also important. Django’s architectural decisions seem odd to me, but they do have their reasons. And when I finally understood those reasons, I became smarter.

Of course that doesn’t mean I’ll drop TurboGears, I still think code re-use is worth the trouble it causes. But, Jacob said it very well “there are benefits to straight-forward bundling, and there are others to letting influence be more piecemeal. Itâ€™s tradeoffs all the way down.”

If one way is labled as “just plain wrong” you don’t get to see the trade-offs clearly.

So, my point was let’s disagree, but let’s do it well! Let’s listen and learn as much as we argue. Then we’ll all be better off.

By: Adrian Holovaty

Adrian Holovaty — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 05:46:06 +0000

Right on, Mark. These arguments have gotten O-L-D. Frankly, I’m embarrassed for the folks who have participated in the pissing matches lately, on both sides of the aisle. It’s embarrassing for all parties involved, and it’s embarrassing for the Python community in general.

By: Ian Bicking

Ian Bicking — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 05:29:46 +0000

But Mark, pissing matches are publicity! And there’s no such thing as bad publicity.

Dismissing everything as differences in opinion isn’t really helpful, or even honest, because *why* there are differing opinions does matter — or, if it doesn’t, then why do we even bother forming these opinions?

Of course, being polite and civil is still essential, since that’s all our communities are built on.