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	<title>Comments on: FUD and TurboGears</title>
	<atom:link href="http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/</link>
	<description>Thinking about programming in new ways</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Ramm</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120197</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Ramm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120197</guid>
		<description>Armin, 

I&#039;m sorry to hear that you are terribly annoyed about something in TG.  I think what you are refering to is the config for plugins that is both not separated by plugin and sent in too early.  It took me some rooting around in Trac to find a report on this issue, and I couldn&#039;t find you anywhere in any trac ticket or anywhere on the mailing list.  So, let me know if I haven&#039;t found the right thing.

In TG2 we don&#039;t prepare an engine until it is first called, so unused template engines should not be loaded.   We also use the Pylons template config list, so everything can have it&#039;s own template options. 

I do note that there&#039;s a ticket for this against TG 1.1 and it may have been pushed back to then because there&#039;s a lot of config/initialization reorganization work scheduled to be done in 1.1

But, if this is a pressing issue for you, or for Jinja users let me know and I&#039;ll see if we can update the priority a bit. 

And thanks again for bringing this to our attention again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Armin, </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry to hear that you are terribly annoyed about something in TG.  I think what you are refering to is the config for plugins that is both not separated by plugin and sent in too early.  It took me some rooting around in Trac to find a report on this issue, and I couldn&#8217;t find you anywhere in any trac ticket or anywhere on the mailing list.  So, let me know if I haven&#8217;t found the right thing.</p>
<p>In TG2 we don&#8217;t prepare an engine until it is first called, so unused template engines should not be loaded.   We also use the Pylons template config list, so everything can have it&#8217;s own template options. </p>
<p>I do note that there&#8217;s a ticket for this against TG 1.1 and it may have been pushed back to then because there&#8217;s a lot of config/initialization reorganization work scheduled to be done in 1.1</p>
<p>But, if this is a pressing issue for you, or for Jinja users let me know and I&#8217;ll see if we can update the priority a bit. </p>
<p>And thanks again for bringing this to our attention again.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Armin Ronacher</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120172</link>
		<dc:creator>Armin Ronacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120172</guid>
		<description>Hi, I hope I haven&#039;t contributed to that FUD, but I stated some times that TurboGears is dead after I was terrible annoyed because of the broken template plugin stuff.

Speaking of which, is there a chance that this fill be fixed before TG2?

Regards,
Armin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I hope I haven&#8217;t contributed to that FUD, but I stated some times that TurboGears is dead after I was terrible annoyed because of the broken template plugin stuff.</p>
<p>Speaking of which, is there a chance that this fill be fixed before TG2?</p>
<p>Regards,<br />
Armin</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Boersma</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120154</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Boersma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120154</guid>
		<description>Not dead, not pining for the fjords, not even close.

I&#039;m a Django user/developer/committer, but I&#039;m eager to participate in the TG2 sprint next weekend.  I can say the same for at least three other Djangoists here in Colorado--we don&#039;t want Django to crowd other good solutions out.  Competition is good and healthy and we&#039;re excited to learn more about TG and share anything we&#039;ve learned in Django that might be applicable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not dead, not pining for the fjords, not even close.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a Django user/developer/committer, but I&#8217;m eager to participate in the TG2 sprint next weekend.  I can say the same for at least three other Djangoists here in Colorado&#8211;we don&#8217;t want Django to crowd other good solutions out.  Competition is good and healthy and we&#8217;re excited to learn more about TG and share anything we&#8217;ve learned in Django that might be applicable.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Ramm</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120136</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Ramm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120136</guid>
		<description>Paul, Simon: 

I doubt that anybody did anything &quot;wrong&quot; somebody misread the article while skimming, or even just read the title, and they told somebody who told somebody...

No big deal, except that that misunderstanding ballooned it could have a negative impact on TG in the long run.  

Thanks for all your support.  I think the python community is awesome!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, Simon: </p>
<p>I doubt that anybody did anything &#8220;wrong&#8221; somebody misread the article while skimming, or even just read the title, and they told somebody who told somebody&#8230;</p>
<p>No big deal, except that that misunderstanding ballooned it could have a negative impact on TG in the long run.  </p>
<p>Thanks for all your support.  I think the python community is awesome!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Ramm</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120134</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Ramm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120134</guid>
		<description>Testmont Dudu: Yea, I heard that.  The TurboGears dev team has been working on a new song and dance number titled:  

&quot;Screw it all, I&#039;m going back to Struts.&quot;

Hopefully we&#039;ll get a stage at PyCon where we can tap-dance, cause that&#039;ll be the best lightning talk ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Testmont Dudu: Yea, I heard that.  The TurboGears dev team has been working on a new song and dance number titled:  </p>
<p>&#8220;Screw it all, I&#8217;m going back to Struts.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hopefully we&#8217;ll get a stage at PyCon where we can tap-dance, cause that&#8217;ll be the best lightning talk ever.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120128</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 15:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120128</guid>
		<description>Hm, I really hope I didn&#039;t contribute to this -- I did make a one-sentence comment when someone linked to your post on reddit because I thought your connection with TurboGears was one of the things that made your post worth reading, and the submitter hadn&#039;t mentioned it. 

My comment was the antithesis of &quot;Foo sux, Bar rulez!&quot; in spirit, but I&#039;ve deleted it just to be safe. Some people have a hard time with the idea that programming languages and tools are not sports teams.

It&#039;s kind of funny to think of somebody reading a 2-point comment on a 0-point story on reddit and having that turn into &quot;Hey Mark, I heard...&quot;

Definitely looking forward to TG 2.0 and any cross-pollination with Django that comes out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm, I really hope I didn&#8217;t contribute to this &#8212; I did make a one-sentence comment when someone linked to your post on reddit because I thought your connection with TurboGears was one of the things that made your post worth reading, and the submitter hadn&#8217;t mentioned it. </p>
<p>My comment was the antithesis of &#8220;Foo sux, Bar rulez!&#8221; in spirit, but I&#8217;ve deleted it just to be safe. Some people have a hard time with the idea that programming languages and tools are not sports teams.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind of funny to think of somebody reading a 2-point comment on a 0-point story on reddit and having that turn into &#8220;Hey Mark, I heard&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Definitely looking forward to TG 2.0 and any cross-pollination with Django that comes out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Pedro Lima</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120110</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro Lima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 11:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120110</guid>
		<description>@Testmont Dudu: GWT and iBatis? That was a good one. Thanks for the good humour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Testmont Dudu: GWT and iBatis? That was a good one. Thanks for the good humour.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicola Larosa</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120107</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicola Larosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 10:35:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120107</guid>
		<description>@Testmont Dudu: &quot;noted Django user&quot;? Simon is one of Django original developers:

http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/faq/#who-s-behind-this

Credit where credit is due.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Testmont Dudu: &#8220;noted Django user&#8221;? Simon is one of Django original developers:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/faq/#who-s-behind-this" rel="nofollow">http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/faq/#who-s-behind-this</a></p>
<p>Credit where credit is due.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesus</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120106</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 10:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120106</guid>
		<description>Keep up your work. Even though Im not involved with TG but django I cant agree more, you can only gain more by learning what others are doing. I went from php to rails to django. If i had went streight from php to django i think i wouldnt be as good on django as i am.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keep up your work. Even though Im not involved with TG but django I cant agree more, you can only gain more by learning what others are doing. I went from php to rails to django. If i had went streight from php to django i think i wouldnt be as good on django as i am.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Testmont Dudu</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120105</link>
		<dc:creator>Testmont Dudu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 09:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-120105</guid>
		<description>In other news, noted Django user Simon Willison has migrated to GWT and iBatis as his framework of choice</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other news, noted Django user Simon Willison has migrated to GWT and iBatis as his framework of choice</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-119994</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-119994</guid>
		<description>I read your blog entry on your learning about Django the other day and did not come away with any sort of feeling that you were dumping Turbogears at all.  So, I get the feeling that there is FUD out there somewhere.

I can&#039;t wait for TG2!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read your blog entry on your learning about Django the other day and did not come away with any sort of feeling that you were dumping Turbogears at all.  So, I get the feeling that there is FUD out there somewhere.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t wait for TG2!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Arndt</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-119953</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Arndt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 15:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-119953</guid>
		<description>As a contributor to the TurboGears project for more than a year now, I can safely vouch for the TG community being alive. In fact, the number of contributors to the codebase has been steadily increasing during the last few months.

That being said, the project lacks a little bit in terms of visibility and marketing effort. So, if you are looking for a way to contribute to TurboGears, why not consider becoming our chief evangelist ;-) Send enquiries and applications to the TurboGears mailing list.

Chris</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a contributor to the TurboGears project for more than a year now, I can safely vouch for the TG community being alive. In fact, the number of contributors to the codebase has been steadily increasing during the last few months.</p>
<p>That being said, the project lacks a little bit in terms of visibility and marketing effort. So, if you are looking for a way to contribute to TurboGears, why not consider becoming our chief evangelist ;-) Send enquiries and applications to the TurboGears mailing list.</p>
<p>Chris</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Ramm</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-119925</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Ramm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-119925</guid>
		<description>James, 

I don&#039;t think it matters.  It wasn&#039;t anybody famous ;) and I don&#039;t think they had anything against TurboGears, it was just what they &quot;heard&quot; from somewhere. 

I also got an e-mail from someone last night telling me they &quot;heard&quot; the same thing from a friend of theirs in another part of the country.   So, it seemed like there was some kind of strange meme going around, and it seemed to be worth refuting right away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it matters.  It wasn&#8217;t anybody famous ;) and I don&#8217;t think they had anything against TurboGears, it was just what they &#8220;heard&#8221; from somewhere. </p>
<p>I also got an e-mail from someone last night telling me they &#8220;heard&#8221; the same thing from a friend of theirs in another part of the country.   So, it seemed like there was some kind of strange meme going around, and it seemed to be worth refuting right away.</p>
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		<title>By: James Bennett</title>
		<link>http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-119924</link>
		<dc:creator>James Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://compoundthinking.com/blog/index.php/2008/01/06/fud-and-turbogears/#comment-119924</guid>
		<description>Who was the Django &quot;enthusiast&quot;? I&#039;d like to have a word with him/her...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who was the Django &#8220;enthusiast&#8221;? I&#8217;d like to have a word with him/her&#8230;</p>
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